Go Back   Friends and Family Forum > The Family Forum > Other

Other A place to discuss any other family member or have general family discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old April 24th, 2009, 04:50 PM
KayKay's Avatar
KayKay KayKay is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 16,155
KayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

That sounds healthy for him. Good job!
__________________
Expecto Patronum!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old May 28th, 2009, 09:42 AM
snafu's Avatar
snafu snafu is offline
future crazy cat lady
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 9,818
snafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

Here's the letter I'm intending to send to my sister (not done yet). Names have been changed. Its long (sigh)

(page1)

edit: kids ages at the time DS=just turned 8; "Leon"=12 1/2 ; Abby 14 1/2; Heidi 17



Twin,

This is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, in part because I’m a coward & a passive enabler. I hope after reading this you will be willing to work with school councilors to help Leon (DN) find appropriate ways to deal with things, rather than hitting & hurting others – especially children who are a lot younger, smaller, &/or weaker than he is; rather than encouraging Leon to be violent. I also hope you will have the courage to show this letter to anyone you discuss it with.

DS has been afraid of both you and Leon (unless he has protection) since the Thanksgiving at mom’s, 2 1/2 years ago. In the past DS has insisted that Will (DH) be present before he will leave his bedroom if you &/or Leon come here, he’s refused to leave his room once when you came because Will wasn’t here. This is because he knows Will will protect him (and I don’t). This Thanksgiving was the first time he’s not asked where Will was before he’d leave his room.

I don’t know if you know everything that happened at mom’s, but this is one major incident what Will & I witnessed when you weren’t present. You, Jill (OS), & mom were in the community room making lunch at the time. I don’t know if Jill ever spoke with you about what happened.

Abby & Heidi were sitting on the couch talking & the boys were lying on the floor, playing with Lego’s. Leon was lying on the floor with his feet towards Abby. Leon starting kicking his feet, when he kicked Abby she asked him to stop (I don’t know if the first kicks were accidental or deliberate). After Abby asked him to stop, Leon deliberately kicked her harder multiple times; she pulled her feet up on to the couch so Leon couldn’t kick her, she did NOTHING back to him. Leon stood up and shoved and kicked Abby, then got on the couch & continued bullying her, he also kicked Heidi multiple times. They both were yelling at Leon to stop – he just laughed at them. Neither one did anything back to him, Abby made it off the couch, but Heidi was trapped in the corner. I never said anything because whenever I’ve tried to correct Leon in the past you’ve gotten upset & let Leon know he didn’t have to listen to me. Will finally got involved, and got Leon to stop. Will tried to explain appropriate behavior to Leon & how you should treat family. Leon’s response was a snotty “That’s just the way I am.” He never said he was sorry. Then he began picking on DS. DS had not done anything during the entire incident, other than watch. Will & both girls finally got Leon to stop. Will & I did not tell you about this as we figured you & Jill should discuss what happened; and if you really wanted to know what happened, you would ask.

Last edited by snafu; May 28th, 2009 at 10:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old May 28th, 2009, 09:42 AM
snafu's Avatar
snafu snafu is offline
future crazy cat lady
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 9,818
snafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

pg 2

Then, I think it was the next day, DS & I were going to ride with you & Leon somewhere. The boys were sitting in the back seat & Leon was poking DS and wouldn’t stop when DS asked him to. When I told Leon to stop, you said to me “He (meaning DS) needs to learn to deal with it.” The message you sent to all of us was Leon does not need to listen to me (an adult) when he’s doing something wrong AND can do what ever he wants. We got the message loud and clear. Leon continued poking DS & when DS did it back to him, Leon complained to you & you chewed DS out. Talk about double standards, and apparently “dealing with it” is letting Leon do whatever he wants with no consequences (except to the person/s who don’t allow what he wants). This sound familiar? Kind of like Dad & Jill? I never though you would use Dad as your parenting roll model.

There was more stuff that Leon did, but there is no reason to go over it all. The thing is at DS’s school they have an anti-bullying program. When we were heading back to (hometown), DS went through the traits of a bully & listed multiple things that Leon did & his (DS’s) responses each time. DS wanted to know why Leon was a bully & didn’t like him. I told him that I didn’t know why Leon acted the way he did. (I understand now why it didn’t work- you support him bullying DS, nor do you care if he hurts DS, so long as Leon gets his way – and more importantly I didn’t stand up for my son)

Since that time Will & I make contingency plans to make sure both kids are safe from Leon when you come. I failed to follow the plan & protect DS this past Thanksgiving & DS got hurt as a result. I’m not surprised he hits Leon/hits him back. The only kids DS gets physically violent with are his two older male cousins (Sam & your son) who have both bullied him in the past. There have never been problems with the way Jill and her girls treat DS, nor with the way he acts with them. He has no problems with his step-cousins (or their cousins); but we’ve never had to worry about their behavior.

I have apologized to DS for not standing up for him & explained that what you and Leon have done is not acceptable. Since then, out of the blue one day, DS referred to you as “Evil Twin”.

Last edited by snafu; May 28th, 2009 at 10:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old May 28th, 2009, 11:08 AM
snafu's Avatar
snafu snafu is offline
future crazy cat lady
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 9,818
snafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

this is what I want to finish with


It hurts that DS’s experiences with you and Leon are similar to ours with Jill (OS aka "golden child")and Dad. DS just wanted to have the same type of relationship that he has with his step-cousins.

Until Leon turns 18, when DS is at his dad’s I have no problems visiting you or having your family visit my home. But, when you are in my home Leon has to follow my rules. Once Leon turns 18 I’ll treat him as an adult. If mom (our DM) dies before then I will NOT allow you OR Leon to bully DS; they both have the right to attend their grandmother’s funeral.

Last edited by snafu; May 28th, 2009 at 11:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old May 28th, 2009, 03:29 PM
KayKay's Avatar
KayKay KayKay is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 16,155
KayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

Uuuuuummmmmmmmm...

*The following is my opinion only, and said with much, much caring about snafu*

Okay.. honestly? I think it's great that you got that all out on paper. Keep fine tuning it, and then burn it.

I know this'll shock you to "hear" me say...

Win or lose, when you fight with skunks you end up stinking.



IMO there's no way that letter will be received well. Your intentions are good, snafu, so I'm not faulting you for them AT ALL. I understand that you want someone to point at the big pink elephant in the room and say "LOOK!" I really get it. I spent 30-some-odd years feeling that way about my sisters.

IMO that letter will make your sister even more defensive. Possibly you are hoping for some remorse from your sister? BTDT... it ain't gonna happen.

Sometimes posters, talking about cutoff, will say that the best way to achieve it is to just do it. Don't make a big announcement "I'm CUTTING YOU OFF"... just slowly fade from sight. IMO, that's how you ought to handle this situation. (and this is just IMO, so take from it what you will) Instead of making it a proclamation that from now on, such-and-such will happen... just have it happen from now on.

snafu, you're doing a good thing and IMO you're a good, well-intentioned person. You have a big heart and want to solve people's problems for them, or at least help. That's a great way to be, but I'm a little worried that you'll get burned trying to help someone who doesn't think they have a problem.
__________________
Expecto Patronum!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old May 28th, 2009, 04:05 PM
grubby's Avatar
grubby grubby is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: In the middle of nowhere
Posts: 1,769
grubby will become famous soon enough
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

You know I love hon, but I have to agree with KayKay. I think the letter was theraputic, but I don't think it will be helpful in your long term goal. I think it is great you are finding your way to standing up for yourself and I think all these things need to be said.

I think your long term goal is to protect your son and I don't think a letter will do that. Your son needs to see you do this.

I have to go right now, but I will be back later to post.
__________________
I'm a guppy, you're a guppy, wouldn't you like to be a guppy too?!!! Guppies are cute!!!

I was a much better parent... before I had kids!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old May 28th, 2009, 06:36 PM
snafu's Avatar
snafu snafu is offline
future crazy cat lady
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 9,818
snafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond reputesnafu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

So.... I need to become a black hole & practice "bean dip" techniques?


I just wish things were differnet - I already avoid my OS like the plague; to cut off my twin - hurts, but my KIDS (yes plural) come first.



edit - it feels good to have gotten this out/down, I'll admit that I about threw up after I wrote the very first sentence & I was shaking & near tears. Now that its done I feel calm.

Last edited by snafu; May 28th, 2009 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old May 28th, 2009, 07:15 PM
KayKay's Avatar
KayKay KayKay is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 16,155
KayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond reputeKayKay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

Well, I'm just saying that IMO there's nothing that you can say to your twin that's going to change the situation for the better. Does that make sense?

If you really think you need to send the letter, then send the letter. But before you do, really THINK about a lot of it. How would you feel if you got a letter from her saying that your DN, out of the blue, started referring to you as the Evil Twin?

Your anger is justified (again, IMO). I understand your frustration. But like grubby pointed out... what is your long term goal? Is sending your sister a letter that vents your spleen about specific instances going to help you get there?

Maybe that's my point. If you want to send it, I think you ought to make it far more concise. The more examples you give her, the less the focus is on the overall message and the more the focus becomes on those particular instances. See if you can summarize it to a paragraph... "Because of DN's ongoing bullying, we feel we have no choice but to place the following requirements on visits:..."

What's going on that this is in the forefront of your mind, snafu? Are you going to be expected to spend time with them over the summer or something?
__________________
Expecto Patronum!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old May 29th, 2009, 03:56 AM
LucyVanPelt's Avatar
LucyVanPelt LucyVanPelt is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,437
LucyVanPelt has a reputation beyond reputeLucyVanPelt has a reputation beyond reputeLucyVanPelt has a reputation beyond reputeLucyVanPelt has a reputation beyond reputeLucyVanPelt has a reputation beyond reputeLucyVanPelt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

Never ever send a letter if you hope to someday have a relationship. You have no way of knowing how it will be received. It will be read over and over again and it will be interpreted in the worst light. It will be saved forever as evidence to use against you. She will never see that her son is a bully but you may very well be called one.

Writing things out for yourself, however, is an excellent way to sort out your own feelings. I'm glad you did that. Now, have yourself a little burning party and get rid of it before you're tempted to send it.

Do follow on your plans to protect your children. That doesn't mean you have to cut her off entirely. You and she can have lunch without the children and talk about other things. You can be sure not to leave the children alone together. Address the situation as it happens. Telling "Leon" that he is not permitted to touch your children will get the point across much more clearly than any letter.

Good luck. Retraining family isn't easy.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old May 29th, 2009, 06:09 AM
Lizzie's Avatar
Lizzie Lizzie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ireland (DUBLIN)
Posts: 852
Lizzie will become famous soon enough
Re: Waiting for the other shoe to drop

I too agree...never ever ever send a letter.

Its a bit of a no win situation. Try to see your sister without the kids present and protect your son from any bullying that might happen if they meet...BUT draw back from meeting them together regularly if you can....slowly fade that out.

Families are all so strange..shes so defensive perhaps shes having lots of people give out about Leon? Maybe shes trying to somehow protect him by trying to overlook things and blame others, I have seen this happen with neighbours of mine we were all wrong and offensive except for the little horror that llived next door...even my special needs child was blamed for annoying him.


But please.....perhaps....NO LETTER! No offence meant.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007, The BlueSparks Network